I had my first encounter with a relatively condescending customer service rep. (in 229 reviews)
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As a longtime sample sale shopper, I had high hopes for Ideeli. I've ordered from Gilt Groupe, Rue La La, and Haute Look, all of which have impeccable customer service, so I was very stoked to find a beautiful dress that had been sold out for ages (it was past season) on ideeli for a fraction of its retail price. Even better, it was only on sale in a 4 and a 12 - after obsessively refreshing for a while (someone put the 4 in their cart), I was able to snag the size 4.
Afterwards, however, I mentioned this purchase to a friend - another longtime sample sale shopper - who seemed surprised I had taken a risk with Ideeli at all. So I went online and found all these terrible reviews - slow shipping, nonexistent customer service, wrong items and sizes sent, sometimes even damaged. I was extremely wary, but there was nothing I could do. To my surprise, the item shipped nearly immediately despite an expected ship date of 3 weeks later so I thought maybe I had just gotten lucky. Wrong. The dress arrived yesterday - in a size 2.
Now I have the option of trying to hassle with customer service - and there is no phone number, so you are at the mercy of whenever they feel like responding to your emails - about exchanging the dress, except I'm not even sure they have it in the right size to begin with. Why would they list a 4 and a 12 if there's also a 2? 2 was not even an option! So that leaves trying to get a refund, which from what I've read is another hassle in and of itself. I may just end up keeping this dress and dieting to fit into it. (eyeroll).
All in all, not the worst experience ever but I imagine if they had sent this to me in a 14 and I needed to return it they would've offered store credit or something of the like, if I managed to get a hold of them at all. If you want a safe consumer experience where you receive the items you order, stay away from Ideeli. There are plenty of better sites out there.
My experience has been great until I changed residences. After changing my residence and updating my address at least 6 times, including updating my address every time I make an order, my purchases are still going to my old address. All my attempts to get this situation resolved have culminated in a few condescending emails suggesting that I update my address. I guess their customer services is dense. I have told them that their software is not working as no matter how I update my new address, nothing takes, and the shipments are still send to the wrong address. So 2 days after complaining yet again about the fact that they have the wrong address, they shipped again an item at the old address. Then the said that I need to call UPS because they already shipped everything. UPS said that the recipient has not option, but Ideeli has all the options to change an address or redirect a package. But Ideeli refuses to do so. This is extremely poor customer service and fraudulent.
I will NEVER shop with Ideeli again.
Terrible experience. Bought a voucher and they won't even let you redeem it. So they basically stole my money without providing any services. No ethics.
well well well, let's see if Mr Jason answers. He seems to be the route to go when you need action from ideeli. My problem is not the merchandise or the shipping as I admit they have great sales, great quality and shipping is fast and within the expected date of arrival. But, why do we have to come here for the entire world to see our complaints after dealing with the so called "customer service" email system.
Jason: I want my $15 credit, offered on an email! The promotion stated on April 7th, Spend $100 at ideeli and the $15 credit will become available in your account by April 14, 2011.
Since then, I have placed FOUR different orders and contacted your "ideeli team" who responded the credit would be posted to my account by April 14th.
Well, they need to check their calendar, today is the 16th and NO credit.
Hoping you can help....
Orders: 23247838, 23290886, 23494426 and 23633150.
I never had any problem with ideeli when it came to the shipment. It was always on time; however, I purchased a trenchcoat and the quality of the product is not worth the money I paid for. In just a couple of days after I wore it, the buttons fell off one after another. Eventually I had to resew all the buttons. The fabric was thin and of lower quality. I learned to never buy clothes or shoes from internet, it is better to see and try out the product first.
I bought some sandals called "Penny Loves Kenny" in the "Codi" wooden platform. I received them in exactly 1 week! I feel like they're very dependable. I just wanted to add a positive experience to this. Maybe since they've had bad reviews in the past, they've made their customer service very very good. I am so satisfied with my purchase, I will definitely come back for more.
I will never shop at this site again. My order is already 3 weeks late and when I check my online banking it shows me that I have been charged 3 times for this dress, which I have only ordered one of. When I contacted ideeli's customer service representatives they said that they are doing this to insure that funds are available-but why? Why do you need to know if I can buy three dresses when I have only ordered one? I find this unnerving. You can take back the $10 store credit you gave me for the late shipping, I just want my dress please.
I am a sucker for a good sale so when I read about this site I had to try it. I have purchased numerous items and have not had a problem. It does take long for the item to ship. However, shipping times are shown on the page of the item.
I do wish they would already have a return shipping sticker in the box that the item arrives in, instead of having to go on the website and print it off.
I am hopeful they will have more things with free shipping in the near future.
I have been impressed that a staff member consistently posts to comments on this site and tries to correct issues.
I am sure over time the management will tweak problem issues and progress into a even better company.
I got online today to see what sales were going to be on ideeli. I came across a dress I really liked. When the sale opened the dress sold out before I could order it! It says it's waitlisted. This is totally misleading. Instead of saying when things are sold out on the item page they just say that they are waitlisted! I used the "live help" which was anything but live, when I brought forth my concerns I received automated answers. How is that live help? You might as well just put together a FAQ and leave it at that.
Come to find out the 'waitlist' doesn't mean that you are put in a queue for this item. They just tell you if they get more and you have to race on to try and get the item.
- First Row: This is totally unfair. If I don't shop at the service that often there is no reason to pay almost $7 a month for the ability to shop only ONE HOUR earlier than everyone else. These people are basically paying to have a one-up on everyone else.
Automated Customer Service: This is just tacky, come on. It upsets people if they want to talk to a person.
"Waitlist": a waitlist implies a list of people who are in line for something. It's just a mass email to those who sign up. Shouldn't it just be a notification? No item is promised and the term waitlist is defeated.
This experience was extremely unprofessional. I waited for about 20-30 minutes for this item only to find out that it was sold out.
Also, I'd like the dress.
What's really going on here? Don't understand...
I'm shocked to see so many negative reviews here. I have placed at least 20 orders from ideeli so far. Yes, sometimes the item was shipped longer than I expected, sometimes the item arrived not perfectly, however their reps were very very helpful. Every time when I contacted them, they were patient and was willing to help.
Well, from my own experiences, if you have a really urgent problem with your order, always try to contact their online reps, they are the most effective ones.
Anyways, I vote for ideeli, rather than gilt, rue la la, hautelook....
I find that the discount is overstated. They are currently selling bloch shoes but the original price is over 20 to 30 bucks. Therefore the discount is not a real discount when compared to other sites. Check Zappos and Saks for regular price.
After reading reviews, I was quite hesitant to shop through this site but I decided to give it try anyway. So, I placed my first order yesterday. Everything went smooth from adding the item to the cart to making the final purchase. I even had few questions which were wonderfully taken care of through discussion board as well as privately. My issue was with sizing. I bought a dress in size 40 which according to the size chart was small. Today, I logged on to see any updates to find out the SIZE CHART HAS BEEN UPDATED. Now, size 40 is a Medium instead.
I have emailed and also, posted on discussion board but no one has reached out to me yet. I am hoping someone will reach out to me ASAP so I am not shipped the wrong size because it was definitely not my fault and I definitely do not wish to be stuck with such a large amount of store credit.
I was hoping I would have something great to say but I really don't until this situation is taken care of.
Ideeli is just about my favorite website. I have ordered numerous times for personal items, gifts for both men and women, and household items. I have never been disappointed. It may take time for the item to arrive but other similar websites are a lot worse. I will certainly check every day to see what is available. Keep up the good work. Margaret Shreehan
Please don't listen to all of these badmouther reviewers in this site. They are all complaining about the shipment being really slow and such, when in a matter of fact, when you buy items from ideeli, they exactly tell you when the expected shipment date is. Some of them are 2-3 weeks, some are shorter, but some are just about 1 week or less. And Ideeli stands for their promise. On the expected shipment date, they ship it promptly and for my items, they were delivered to me within 2 days since the shipment date. How come you all say that Ideeli is the worst company and such?! You are getting crazy discount for a very expensive item, I would wait for 3 weeks, since they tell me about it. It's not like they didn't say anything about it before you made your order. You want it fast? Just go to Sax Fifth or Neimann then! Buy at regular price!
My experience with Ideeli was awesome. I ordered 2 L.A.M.B watches for gifts and they were perfect! Great quality, authentic like promised, with crazy discounts! Shipment was prompt like mentioned on my order, couldn't be better. 5/5 stars!
I have ordered many things from this website and never disappointed. The email updates about the sale items are great too because I know exactly what designers I like. Here's my issue I moved to another state and had an issue with another site and changing my address so I asked ideeli if they would change my address in their system. I was told to do it myself I did so and shortly after placed an order. Ideeli sent my order to my old address. They claimed they fixed it that day but according to the ups website it took 5 days for them to do the package was delivered to my old address. I informed them of their error one day after shipping. I have yet to get my order because it's "pending".
I've shipped with Ideeli for years and have finally decided to spend my money with Hautelook.com or Gilt.com. I've placed many orders that Ideeli has been unable to fulfill, at which point they offer a credit for the inconvenience which is appreciated. However, a month ago I placed an order for a leather jacket - I was especially excited about this order as if had my eye on it in a store a few months prior. I first was notified that shipping would be delayed and issued a credit for the shipping ($10). Then I was notified they would be unable to fill the order and issued a $15 credit. I appreciated it. However, today (less than a month later) I noticed the same jacket, in the size I ordered, on sale again. However, it sold out before I could purchase it. I sent an email to ideeli and was told the item had been returned from the original sale. So, not only had they filed someone's order other than myself the first time, but when that person sent the item back I was not even given the opportunity to purchase it. They offered me a $10 voucher, but I will not take another chance on ideeli. at least with other sites I know I will get what I purchaser!
I am sorry a lot of people hav had bad experiences with ideeli...but i must tell you I LOVE this site. I´ve made over 15 purchases so far and have had great experiences in all but one of the items. Most of the time the prices are way below the regular price and I can assure you i´ve never had one item which I did not think had the proper quality. The only bad experience I´ve had is getting a dress with the security tag still attached. Ideeli told me to return it and that they would send it back again and pay for shipping, I tought it too much of a hassle and decided on removing it with my Dremel tool (not recommended unless you really know how to work this tool). After this the dress was lovely and I got tons of compliments on it. I´ve allways been happy about my ideeli purchases.
Other two sites I can highly recomend are gilt and hautelook.
Love Ideeli, they always have the best deals! All my purchases have been received before the promise date. Thanks
I always had a good experience with, them specially customer service. They always answer within a couple of minutes online while the sale is going on. They even called to my home to clarify some doubts I had. I have nothing bad to say of this company. I agree that shipping takes longer than expected that is why I can't buy gifts for other people's (e.g.birthdays) but, by any means I consider that as deceiving.
I order from this site all the time. I am surprised by reviews about bad customer service. I had questions about an order and e-mailed customer service. The issue was resolved in less than two hours and I received a coupon for my trouble. I love the products, and the prices are awesome. I refer friends all the time and they also tell me how much they love it. I find great stuff for reasonable prices...even bought a $1000 watch for $140 bucks! Nothing to complain about here! Thanks, Ideeli!
Love Ideeli, they always have the best deals! All my purchases have been received before the promise date. And next week I am off to Jamaica with one of their vacation deals. LOVE LOVE LOVE Ideeli! Keep up the good work, especially you Jason for writing back to all the complaints!!
Shop this website on a monthly basis, never had an issue with shipping or the quality of the items. The longest time I've waited for a item was 7 days and when an item I ordered was no longer available the promptly refunded the cost and gave me a credit for a future purchase, sorry other shopper have not had the same great experiences. I'm definitely going to shop from this website for a longtime!
Ideeli can have pretty amazing customer service! If you email them politely about your problem, they do try their best to help you get your money back. I accidentally bought the same items (lingerie) twice on two separate account, and wanted to cancel one of the orders. The items were already shipped by that time and according to their online policy, lingerie can't be returned. I wrote to them asking to cancel the order or at least to return the item for store credit. I was confused because I just received a formal message telling me the case is closed. I wrote to them again about the same problem, and got back a long patronizing essay on why if we're allowed to return whatever we want, bags, lingerie, etc, the prices will be a lot higher than we afford... By that time I was pissed and thought I have no chance of getting any money, in the form of actual money or store credit back.
But when I looked at my order summary 2 weeks later (first time I checked it since the incident), I saw a return label for my lingerie order. And I was able to return my order for $55 in store credit :). The person who helped me out even used my original store credit toward that purchase, so my credit card was only charged $20 for a $65 order. The only thing I lost was $10 for the shipping and handling fee and having $10 converted from cash to store credit.
My problem was especially complicated because I tried canceling after the items are shipped and the items are technically not returnable. Under the two conditions, they really did everything they can to help me out. If you just buy clothing and accessories from ideeli.com, I really can't see how you can encounter any problem. They have super fast and convenient free returns. Every time I returned an order, I receive my store credit w/ 3 days after I shipped it. I think they have a really clean layout and the best deals out of all the sample sale websites too, especially their Red sales. Only thing negative I have to say about them is that their pictures are really misleading about the color of the items. Everything is lighter than it actually is. A light mint dress turn out pure white in their photos, so make sure you always check the description.
I'm staying away from ideeli. I had the same problem with ideeli as far as dress size. I bought and returned a dress 2 times because each time the dress fit giant on me. I received store credit twice, and lost money on shipping and handling each time. So I finally on 10/6/2010 bought a blazer/sweater, that also fit large on me, but I kept it because I didn't want to waste any more shipping money with ideeli.
I spent a total of $30 in shipping costs (for the returned items and the new sweater), for one large ugly sweater that cost $36. So it would have been better for me to buy the ugly sweater at retail price at a regular store in town, I would have tried it on and found out that it looks terrible on me.
In summary, it ended up costing me $66 to try on clothes from ideeli that in the end didn't work out for me. I kept the big ugly blazer because it was smarter to keep it than to whittle down my store credit further.
I was pretty furious to find out that Ideeli did not use my return credits to pay for a new order. Really really disappointing; I really thought Ideeli would treat me better than this. I see this as an easy way for them to get more money out of me and then tie me to the site with the return credits I still have. What a disgrace.
I have made many purchases here and while I may have had to wait -they always let you know via "my account" the status of your order with the estimated ship date and delivery date. I have had no problems at all with this site. You have to pay attention to the dates you have to return items and when you do return them you only get store credit as there are absolutely no refunds. I learned that the hard way. When you want to return something it is really easy -you go to the site, click "my account" , scroll down and find the shipment, then the item and click and they give you a shipping label that you print out. Slap it on and drop it off at the UPS store and you are done! The quality has been great - I only order designers I am familiar with so I haven't had any surprises. I would recommend this site to all fashionista's who like to stay on a budget - you get great deals!!!
I do not recommend shopping from Ideeli.com. There are absolutely too many other sites with a similar concept who do an amazing job. I purchased twice from ideeli. I canceled both orders due to late shipping. My first order still had not shipped after 2 months after purchasing. My 2nd order still had not shipped even a month after. I order from hautelook and gilt and my items are shipped within a week of me placing the order It's truly not worth the hassle to dealing with ideeli.
The site clearly states the ship dates and return policy for each sale. I purchase 1-3 items a month and have never had a problem with authenticity or item quality. In fact one item I purchased did not sell out and was listed a week later for $20 less than I paid, ideeli credited my account the $20 immediately.
I see so many negative reviews about ideeli.com that I decided to chime in. I only started buying from them late in 2010, so maybe they fixed a lot of their previous problems? The site clearly states return policy (if there is one, you get free shipping back and store credit, which is fine for me) and sometimes items aren't eligible for return, so it states that and you take a risk. I've bought a few things with no return policy, but I was sure that I would like them and/or they would fit. There is also a shipping window listed for each purchase and so far they shipped eiher within the window or much much sooner. I had to make a few returns and never had a problem - try it on, doesn't fit, go to the website, print return label, put back in packaging that the items came in with, drop off at UPS and the next day I get an email saying I have store credit. To minimize wasting $10 on shipping, I really think twice about buying something as the size chart is not always accurate and some clothing runs large. So I've only returned something twice and the rest of the things I got were beautiful and cheap - I got $150 BCBG dresses for $30-40 and I went online to other retailers and found those same dresses for sale for over $100. Just don't buy pants and skirts - they are hard to guess the fit without trying :)
This is the first time I've ever felt compelled to join one of these groups. With that in mind stay away from IDEELI.COM. Even their own cs representatives expressed disdain with how the company handles itself. Documentation doesn't help and the truth is manipulated to fit their needs. BUYER BEWARE.
I purchased a Juicy Couture handbag before I came across this site and was extremely worried about my purchase due to all the negative feedback. I actually received the bag much sooner than expected, exactly one week after I made the initial purchase. The bag was in perfect condition, although smaller than I anticipated. I was extremely satisfied with how my buying experience went with them and I will definitely be using them again!
Shopping on Ideeli.com was a great experience. I brought a BCBG Maxazria dress (which is $348 in the store) for $70 on this website. They shipped the dress before they even said they would and sent me an email to let me know that it was coming. The dress is perfect and I'm thrilled! I also contacted the customer service via email and they responded in about 1 or 2 hours with an answer to my question.
I really like ideeli.com. I look at the sales every day. I've had to return items before because they were the wrong size. Not because ideeli sent the wrong size, but because they just didn't fit me. I have never had trouble returning an item. I buy mainly dresses and a few sweaters. I was really surprised to see the poor reviews. I think the site spells out very explicitly how the sales, shipping, and returns work. I will continue to use ideeli!
I just received the first (and now only!) item I will buy from Ideeli. They are a pair of boots--expensive at $275 and they have CLEARLY been worn. I would send them back, but frankly I can't risk getting my blood pressure up by shopping for inferior/used products to use up a credit as they won't refund cash. I have shopped Rue La La and Gilt group with no issues. I really feel taken here, but I guess Caveat Emptor--I should have looked for reviews before I made a purchase. I was thinking of buying one of their vacation packages in the Caribbean--no way would I chance it now!
I really love this site and have bought a number of things (multiple dresses, a shopping coupon, underwear, sunglasses, etc.) Shipping can take a bit but it has told me everytime when I purchased something expected date. The deals can't be beat and all of my co-workers are now shoping on the site as well. They had a delay on some of my items but nothing that wasn't manageable and they gave me a credit for the inconvience. I'm sorry to seee it getting such poor reviews but I love it!
I ordered a dress and received it within a weeks time.I tried it on it was a little big, I,m not sending it back, i'll have it altered. However, the bead work is a little off center, but i can live with that. maybe thats why the price was so good. But over all my first time ordering from ideeli was pretty good. I'll definitely order again.
I joined this website last week and when i tried to purchase something was told my address did not match the address on my credit card which is not true. I figured it was just a glitch in the system and never bought anything. Imagine my surprise when I had 20 $1 transactions to my card for no reason. I tried calling their "customer service" line which told me due to the "Holidays" (It is almost March - they must have a huge St. Patricks Day crowd) they have a high call volume and I got transefered to a voicemail telling me to try their live chat. This is the live chat I already tried and when I brought up my issue was disconnected and no can not re-connect using my name and e-mail. So I made up a name and e-mail sh$#*!inly got through but was kept waiting for over oh wait I am still waiting 20 minutes later. So considering I have never used this site and I have still been charged I don't plan on ever using this site.
I've actually had several good experience with this site. They delivered within the expected time frame as listed on the site. The only iffy part about this store is the return policy. Anything that is returned is given store credit, which prompts you to spend on the site again. But not a problem for me. I like shopping here =)
it take for ever to get something shipped. it has been one month that I am waiting for a dress. Now I can't even wear the dress because the event already happened.
This is actually a MESSAGE FOR MR. JASON F.
Mr. F, I want to communicate you that I ordered yesterday a dress, but I just realized that I asked a wrong size. I need the size number 2, which is still available in the web site. I sent an e-mail yesterday night to Ideeli asking for you guys to change the size before to send it to me.
But now, that I already read all these bad reviews about Ideeli I am afraid that I will have a bad experience as well. So, here is my message for you Mr. F: If you really sorry for all the mistakes Ideeli did to all these costumers, here you have the opportunity to fix a problem before it comes. I am sending you this message in a public web because I want make sure that YOU will take care of what I already asked. If Ideeli do not give an answer immediately, I will come to this web again and let people know the continuation of my story.
If something goes wrong, I do not want to see a message from you here saying the same thing you said to all these people: "I apologize, I apologize..." If it happen, then it will be more than clear that you just apologize but you do not really move a finger to help anyone.
That is my order number: 20468415
This is my incidence number:110223-000715
Appreciate any help. Priscila
This is the worst merchant on the internet today. I have received from ideeli in the past month, one previously worn (and damaged) bracelet and two necklaces that I did not order and do not even remotely resemble what I did order.
The fine folks at ideeli customer service (there are rocks in my front yard with higher intelligence) promised me a full refund - purchase price plus shipping - back to my debit card. I have this agreement in writing.
Today, I get an email from customer service that my purchase price - less shipping - is now available to use as STORE CREDIT.
Hey ideeli, no offense, but I don't want to shop on your website ever again. So I'm going to need you to go ahead and refund the entire amount back to my debit card as you originally promised....
I will post again once I have resolution. Until then, caveat emptor! Or shop with someone else.
I have been shopping at Ideeli for over a month now and have bought quite a few items.
They have shipped all the items (very carefully packaged to make sure nothing broke) in the timeframe they specified.
Customer service has been excellent - all questions I emailed were answered within a day. Also, one non-returnable item I bought was defective and I emailed them.. they promptly emailed me a return label.
I am a fan.
I've placed approximately 5 items (handbag, shoes, dresses) from Ideeli. I haven't had any problems. Each item arrived in the timeframe posted on the website and was the correct size/item. The only issue I've had is that some items (1 pair of shoes and handbag) were below the level of quality I expected. However, I have not yet dealt with customer service, so I can't offer an opinion.
Purchased a pair of boots. Took 1 month to receive. Did not like at all. Returned immediately and then took another month to receive a credit. Now I am forced after 2 months to purchase another item with my credit. Which will take another month to receive. I will NEVER order another thing from this site. There are many other designer discount sites that process you order in a timely fashion as well as your returns. And many offer a credit to your card. Do not order from this site!!!!
Well, 50-50 review for me. I've had a few good and a few bad experiences. I ordered a spring jacket... Came as promised, great. Then, ordered another, diff style/brand. It came with a small pen mark on the back.I kept anyway as it was barely noticeable. I ordered a purse...it came completely frayed at edges...looked used. I've ordered teeshirts, no probes, but boots that smelled and looked worn.
It really is a crap shoot, but fun still the same. I would never order seriously expensive items though..
I'm ready to throw in the towel on this one...
My first purchase was a dress, it was a fair price, shipping time was okay, and I loved the piece! I was very happy and raved about the company.
My second purchase was a set of lenox towels: the towels arrived but the wash clothes and hand towels did not. The company told me I could return the item for their review -- huh? Let me go out of my way to return an incomplete order for what? Them to tell me I secretly kept the matching wash clothes and hand towels? I counted my losses on this one and didn't fight it.
Then just the other week I decided to buy some lingerie since V day is coming up. I got an email saying they didn't get in one of the items and apologized and gave me a $15 credit. ok, thats fine. Then the other piece came in and it was missing a garder strap. Seriously?! So now I have a non-returnable item that won't even hold up my stockings. Not to mention that I'm also without the very item I wanted to have on Valentines day -- had I received the other item, this wouldn't have been as much of an issue.
Are the deals good? yes.
Are they worth it? probably not.
I have serious doubts that their products are original, the boots I received today
worth soooooo far less that what I payed for them. They have not quality at all, It is
clear they are not original, so bad I can not return them. Waste of money, do not buy from them
I saw all of the bad reviews AFTER I had placed my order so I was holding my breath. Then I received my top from MM Couture and it was perfect - exactly as described and the right size. The prices are incredible and the presentation of items on the site is very appealing and easy to use. Perusing the pages is kinda fun. It's true, though, that it takes a couple of months but it tells you before you place the order when you can expect the shipment, so I wasn't surprised about that. Also, since everything was as I had ordered, I didn't have to deal with customer service. SO, so far, in summary, I still consider it a good site for shopping. I'll be back though if I place another order and have another good experience or have a bad one.
i have placed numerous orders with ideeli and have never encountered a problem. i have returned two items and was credited with the amount of the actual product. i love ideeli.com!
I read a lot of complains about ideeli business, and I'm one of them :(
It's actually shame business and waste of time, (I'm happy, I didn't give them card no.)
You can see below, my posts, in order to find someone to be nice with me, customer, and final answer was; I'm not gonna comment, it's funny:
"Thank you for being in touch and letting us know your thoughts. As we continue to evolve the ideeli shopping experience to be the best that it can be, your feedback is crucial. We will be taking the most constructive criticism into consideration as we make further improvements. Thanks for being a part of ideeli." :):)
Do not trust to this company, especially if they offer some "promo" and I can tell them now: "I don't like your promo coupon, I don't like to be in business with you ..."