We’re in this together! Stay safe with our COVID-19 guide

View
×
steves1614

Steve S.

1
Level 1 Contributor

Contributor Level

Total Points
340

3 Reviews by Steve

6/2/21

The Better Business "Bureau" letter ratings are bogus.
The BBB is mostly an advertising agency pretending to serve the public. It represents those who buy membership; reportedly sometimes at $10,000 a year. The BBB is as trustworthy as an infomercial, and its BBB's online complaint system is an obstacle course. This applies to the national BBB as well as the one in St. Louis I've dealt with.
Vogel is still an A+ with the BBB, but even the customer reviews on BBB are very low if not fabricated by asking for reviews before the customer knows how bad the work done is. Anyone who has an A+ from BB and low grades from customers is obviously a swindler.
The character limit on what could be entered online (which was a surprise) did major damage to my initial complaint, which is all they now show, and they rejected the submission of a summary.
The first Email of Vogel's reply failed because the BBB could not apparently mail to my Charter address (no, it's not blocked for spam). I finally called at the end of that week, but on Saturday I got an email and they'd closed complaint and removed my access to the complaint, which I had fortunately copied. I did get it reopened.
BBB ratings represent the BBB's opinion of how the business is likely to interact with its customers. The BBB has an unjustified reputation for fairness. It is, however, by it's own admission a biased rep of unethical business: BBB PROVIDES A SERVICE THAT MARKETS TRUST IN YOUR BUSINESS & BRAND [Ref: https://www.bbb.org/globalassets/local-bbbs/louisville-ky-23/media/bbb-accreditation-value_short-and-simple.pdf]
Vogel is still A+ after Vogel tried to buy my online support and silence about their inferior work installing a Carrier HVAC system.

BBB online
The BBB does its best to make it hard to file a complaint. Do not believe the program when it says you can leave the current screen and return to it with data intact. Their privacy policy allows them to provide info to BBB Wise Giving Alliance.
The surprise 1000 character restriction caused truncation of my submission. I wasn't prepared for that when I came to paste my complaint.>
2 Apr 21, my complaint wasn't online. I called and the lady said they don't go up online until resolved. I should already have a copy of the Vogel response but she will resend. They seem to have had problems with my Charter email account, though I suspect the sabotage came from other sources. I ended up having to give them a gmail.
3 Apr 21, I was informed by email that my complaint has been closed. On a Saturday no less, when I could not call in.
5 Apr 21, the rep said the complaint appears to still be there. I was sent the reply by email. The computer program is national."
9 Apr 21, I needed to make some small corrections, but I was told it would be up to a supervisor if it got added.
16 Apr 21, I finally got a reply from a supervisor she told me there's nothing to reply to so it won't let me in. The supervisor said I can only access through email link.
26 Apr 21, A BBB mediator called. She said Vogel said they offered $3,635. I stressed to her that I had accepted the amount stated and then rejected it when they stated I had to agree to not post any comments elsewhere and make a positive comment. She said I could accept without the provisos and she'd proceed with that.
14 May 21, Vogel is sticking to their position, and BBB will close the complaint.
What was put up online as my complaint and their reply (both of these were actually plural) were purposely modified to make Vogel look good.

How it began:
On April 30th 2020, I called Vogel for a regular visit (they charge $139 vs the usual $89). Their man claimed my air conditioning would probably fail that summer. I was talked into replacing it all. After a year of discomfort that proved the system installed by Vogel at his suggestion couldn't handle cooling or heating as well as the one they had removed, I had to call in several other companies to determine what precisely Vogel had done.
I had the man who installed the system back on 20 May 20 <Jeff did mention the vent in the bedroom I use as a library (I did not authorize a pic), the room has no returns and is not one in which I have any concerns about the temperature, so it's irrelevant and proves only his inadequacy in his job> and the the guy who did the initial visit and recommended the new system on 12 Jun 20. I had asked Rick about vents and he'd said he had noted to Jeff to look into adding some. Instead he destroyed the returns. Neither pointed out the real problem they had caused and this was too early for me to know the extent of it.
They had taken out a small section of wallboard up high in the utility room which opened all the returns from the bedrooms to the utility room. So the huge obnoxious air return on the HVAC only led back to the utility room itself--they might as well have left the side of the HVAC open at the filter.
I had to run the portable air conditioner in my bedroom all summer instead of the few days I was use to doing this. This not only cost in electricity but allowed a lot more noise from the neighborhood to get in. I used to have to cover the bedroom vent behind the headboard in the master bedroom to prevent it blowing on me. After Vogel little came out at all.
The enlarged return air duct on the back side of the main unit in the utility room makes it impossible to get access to change the vent for the dryer. Further, I saw no real practical use in doing this since they did not increase the number or size of the vents taking in air. This was required by the new furnace I did not actually needed or cared about.
In addition to bad air-conditioning performance in the Summer, the Heating was inadequate in the early Winter--not just the deep cold that followed.
I called several times about the air conditioning and even had Jeff back (20 May) and Rick back(12 Jun). Dale called me on 16 Jun 20. Had I known he was Vogel's marketing Director, I would not have bothered to talk to him. I asked for and never got a call back on a remote sensor for the thermostat.
Vogel installed a thermostat for which they got a kickback from Ameren and probably the maker--I didn't file for the $25 because I didn't want the thing to begin with.
Vogel shouldn't have installed the furnace if they knew it required the large return that doesn't fit, blocks movement in the utility room, and required they take return-air from the utility room itself.
The promised 100% Carrier Authorized Dealer refund was denied because I wouldn't accept John Vogel's added demand. The Vogel CEO offered $3,635 (of $6835) then said BUT you will have to withdraw all negative comments, make no more, AND post a positive statement about them. I said "No" and hung up.

Conclusion:
If BBB is just a neutral party, why is it so heavily advertised? It is only an advertising agency pretending professional neutrality and even support of the customer. BBB pretends to be an arbitrator, but arbitrators are supposed to be neutral. The BBB is definitely in support of its clientele paying members. This constitutes fraud to me and they have been prosecuted in some state; I will try to get that done in mine; and, perhaps, at the Federal level.
BBB does everything they can to hide any records the consumer might need. One look is all you get. Answering an email takes you online to a page you many never be able to access again.
The BBB must be forced to state its aims more clearly. Admit to being an agent of those who pay its fees. I will be talking to the FTC and my State Attorney General.

Tip for consumers:
Don't waste your time filing a complaint with the BBB.

Products used:
Complaints

72 Views
6/1/21

Their "Authorised Dealer 100% Refund" is a joke. On the first phone call they denied it existed.

As for their equipment. The return apparently required for what was a same-size device is too large for my utility room and gets in the way of other things. Their "approved" installers seemed not to take this into consideration before talking me into buying the device.

10:02,16 Apr 21. I called Carrier at Made it to complaints against dealers. How do I get a Carrier factory authorized dealer to uninstall and make a 100% refund? The lady said they do not deal with installation problems, so the guarantee doesn't cover my problem with Vogel Heating and Cooling Co. In Fenton; but I did finally get a case number.

09:10,27 Apr 21. I called agai. Finally got through to the a conflict resolution magager at 09:24. Told her on 20 Apr 21, I called Mr John Vogel and told him I wanted a full refund minus $1000 for parts in my house. He said he offered $3,636, which I started to accept, but added he wanted a promise not to post negative comments about Vogel and that I post a positive comment somewhere. At that point I said no and goodbye. She will refer to District Service Manager. No claim this time that the 100% refund doesn't apply.

10:05,17 May 21. I called again. Never got through; gave up at 1035.
There is nothing on their site about complaints.

07:30,18 May 21. I called and go the senior rep I had talked to before at 0745. She will sent a complaint form for the Management Review Board to my email. I told her I would escalate my complaint.

Original Vogel Heating and Air Conditioning complaint summary:
On April 30th 2020, I called Vogel for a regular visit (they charge $139 vs the usual $89). Their man claimed my air conditioning would probably fail that summer. I was talked into replacing it all. After a year of discomfort that proved the system installed by Vogel at his suggestion couldn't handle cooling or heating as well as the one they had removed, I had to call in several other companies to determine what precisely Vogel had done.
I had the man who installed the system back on 20 May 20 and the the guy who did the initial visit and recommended the new system on 12 Jun 20. Neither pointed out the real problem they had caused and this was too early for me to know the extent of it.
They had taken out a small section of wallboard up high in the utility room which opened the returns from the bedrooms to the utility room. So the huge obnoxious air return on the HVAC only led back to the utility room itself--they might as well have left the side of the HVAC open at the filter.
Vogel shouldn't have installed the furnace if they knew it required the large return that doesn't fit, blocks movement in the utility room, and required they take return-air from the utility room itself.
The promised 100% Carrier Authorized Dealer refund was denied because I would accept John Vogel's added demand. The Vogel CEO offered $3,635 (of $6835) then said BUT you will have to withdraw all negative comments, make no more, AND post a positive statement about us. I said "No" and hung up. I'm not rich; I live on a civil service retirement. I won't take money to lie.

Carrier 100% back Guarantee is a fake anyway. They can't put back what they removed.

Summer has yet to get very hot and winter is yet to come, so I cannot be sure the fixes to the Carrier junk installed will work well enough. There is still a possibility I will have to have it removed by a third party.

794 Views
10/2/20

That's what it seemed like a few days ago. It started triggering Captcha every time I called up my browser. Took me a while to figure out it was my bad choice of Dogpile as a search engine. The captcha had no identification where it was from and the page was http://omblockedips.com/... A couple of time it let me validate then said something like "keep it up, Maybe you'll get unbanned." Ridiculous. I do not know what you could do on a search engine to get banned and whatever it is I'm sure I didn't do it. I will never use the site again. I will try to get it blocked from the Net.

Steve hasn’t received any votes.

Steve hasn’t received any thanks yous.

Steve doesn’t have any fans yet.

Steve isn’t following anybody yet.

Empty.

Similar Reviewers on Sitejabber

michaelm7716
9/28/21

If you have a complaint against a business and google possible helpful suggestion; you will...

nettiet3
8/13/21

I had to file a complaint against Anker Technologies for their shoddy business practices during...