lindsay m.

I am in a dispute with bidfun. They have their arse pretty well covered however I believe they don't disclose a very important fact. They run 4 web sites in The UK, Canada, NZ and Aust. When you join you think you are just competing with people in your own country when in fact you are bidding with 4 other countries.

Please see details of the dispute i am having.

Dont waste you time with this outfit.it like putting money in a slot machine. You may win the first time but eventually it will take the money back and more...

Start at the bottom and work your way back to get a idea of what they are like to deal with...

4/02/2011 21:48 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: I purchase credit for bidfun believe it was an auction site. I believed I was biddding against people in New Zealand because it was a. co.nz website. I have since discovered that I am competing with people in other countries. The whole web site is a scam in my opinion. I was not informed anywhere on his web site that the auction run across 4 different countries on 4 diffrent web site. If I'd known this I would have not participated in a bidding war with the world. If he had disclosed this than things would be different. I have done a lot of business with paypal and I'd be pretty disapointed if you supported a scam like this outfit is clearly running...
4/02/2011 21:40 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: So you believe its Ok to charge $5000 more than retail and you agree your didnt disclose that people in NZ are bidding against people all over the world. Thanks I'll let paypal decide the fake of this one. Rgds
4/02/2011 15:06 GMT+13:00 - Seller: and to NZ is actually the same. As you can see, none of your arguments demonstrate any significant difference that would affect the bidding. There are actually more differences between people in any given country than between any of the countries we provide service in (there are people in large cities and people in remote areas; there are people earning significantly more than others...). We do show the total number of users, all countries included. We do show all their bids. There is thus still absolutely nothing misleading. A refund would be unfair to the other users who paid to bid against you, and it would actually be illegal since it would amount to shill bidding, which is the first thing you (wrongly) accused us of!
4/02/2011 15:03 GMT+13:00 - Seller: There are many different types of auctions, each with its own rules: ascending, descending, public, secret, timed or not, with or without participation or bidding fees, etc. Wikipedia alone over a dozen such types. The important point is that all the rules are clearly stated and that things work as described, which is the case here. I thus don't know what a "normal" auction site is, or how our site would not be "normal". If you mean "you thought it was like eBay", then, that is not possible: the site explicitly and repeatedly states the rules which are very, very different from those of eBay, and if that were not enough, the simple fact that you had to buy points before you could bid made it even more obvious. You were thus perfectly aware of the way the site worked when you bought those points, and things do work exactly as described. We do not hide any information in pages of legalese that nobody understands or even reads. We state the rules as simple sentences that are repeated in prominent positions all over the site, including on each auction details page, right next to the "Bid" button, and on the page where you bought the points, right above the "Buy" button. It cannot be considered "fine print", and there is absolutely nothing "misleading". You apparently thought that buying an item for a fraction of its cost would be moral. What would the opposite not be "moral"? It's a free market, people are allowed to buy or sell at any price as long as both parties agree, which is the case here. You were bidding on a 32 GB iPod Touch. Its retail price is £254 in the UK and $500 in NZ. Given the current exchange rate, the difference is about 6%. That does not make much of a difference, especially given the actual final bid amounts are a fraction of the retail price. The nominal GBP per capita in the UK is $*******, in NZ it is $*******. That's about 10% less. Again, it does not change the equation significantly. Since they are built in China, the distance to the UK and to N
4/02/2011 13:33 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: I brought the points because I assumed incorrectly you where a normal auction site. My fault for not reading the fine print. Your site however in my opinion is misleading. I didnt say bidding was immoral. What I said is that your profit taking is... As stated previously do you think it is fair margin to take$5000 dollars more than the retail value of an ipod which already include margins/profit and taxes? So you agree you did not disclose in the small print I was bidding on a worldwide stage not just in NZ. This is misleading as the market in other countries have diffrerent market forces. Firstly the so called retail value is diffrent due to supply and demand.The taxes are different.The currency are weaker and stronger. The buying power of a market like England in much stronger than it is in NZ. England is also closer to the manufacturring base as is Australia. This effects buying decisions as you like to know what market you are in? I understand the NZ market very well but not Eng etc. I agree it is fine to have international bidding but why have 4 seperate web sites and not disclose we are bidding against people in these countries. People in NZ know how to do currency cenversion so don't use that excuse. I am a customer. When I sell things and the deal goes wrong I do the right thing with replacements and refunds. It is clear all you do is take the money and don't care about the customer All you do is wait for the next fool to be mislead by your clever web site and keep the money...
4/02/2011 09:18 GMT+13:00 - Seller: 1. Before you bid, you bought the points. Why did you if you thought it was "immoral"? 2. We are not saying it is "immoral" (which everybody has his/her own definition for anyway). We are just asking why you bought and used points if *you* thought it was. 3. Nothing on the site states the opposite. It is common practice to allow international bidding, both offline and online. When you buy bananas at the store, does the merchant need to "disclose" that you should peel them before eating them?
4/02/2011 08:15 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: I bid because it clear you where not going to refund. As I suspected however it was a waste of time. Obviously its immoral to bid according to you now and its ok to make 5000 more than the retail price of an ipod. Can you answer my question above please Where on your site does it disclose you are bidding against people in 4 different countries?
3/02/2011 09:26 GMT+13:00 - Seller: Again, if you think it is "immoral", then why did you buy and use points? It is the very nature of the Internet to allow people worldwide to participate on a single site. It is also a common feature of auctions, both in real life and online, to allow worldwide bidders. Also, the site shows the total number of users (all countries included), and the finished auction history obviously takes into account the bids of all users from all countries, so whether the X users come from a single village or from the whole world does not change the equation.
3/02/2011 08:10 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: I am well well aware of margin and profit. The retial price for a 32 gb ipod in NZ is 500 dollars. This includes margin profit and taxes so you 5664 finishing price is just not moral. Where on your site does it disclose you are bidding against people in 4 different countries? Another fact I was not aware of when I purchased credit?
3/02/2011 03:23 GMT+13:00 - Seller: Again, it is the same auction. So it quite obviously has the same bidders and will have the same winner. This is exactly the same on eBay for many auctions: you 'll find the same item on the Australian, the US and the UK site for instance, and you'll see the same bidder at the same time, because it is the same auction. Since it is the same auction, it will have a single winner, who will receive the local version for his country, shipped from his country to his country, with a local warranty (that's the difference between us and eBay). Yes, there are genuine items for sale, and this has been verified by the competent authorities as well as by Paypal. There are no robot bids by us, this would be completely illegal, and it has been verified by the competent authorities and Paypal not to be the case as well. It is not only physically possible, it is a definite requirement that the same bid shows up on all sites since it is the same auction. If you watch a football game on two different channels at the same time, you will see the same goal by the same player at the same time on both, because it is the same game! It does not matter if the logos in the corner of the screen or the commentaries are different (that's the "localization"), it is the same game. It's exactly the same here: it is the same auction, so it has the same bids at the same time by the same bidders. If you thought it was "immoral" I can't but wonder why you bought and used points in the first place. Apparently you are not aware of the margins of many retailers. Note that margns and profits are not the same thing, there are many other costs involved. Also the ratios are definitely not the same on all items, so our overall profit margins certainly do not exceed those of most other retailers.
2/02/2011 22:19 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: This still does not explain how the same bidder (with the same user name, clearly the same person) can bid instantaneously on 4 different sites, in 4 different auctions and in 4 different countries at exactly the same time on manual auctions. And this also begs the question of why someone would like to win an item in four separate countries when they clearly only live in one country, and the freight is only free in the country where they live. Please explain whether these auctions are genuine, ie. Are there genuine items for sale, and also how this cannot be a robot bid by your outfit. It clearly is not physically possible to bid in this manner. I am amazed that you admit that you think that it is morally responsible to sell products for that level of profit. You certainly have a different level of morality to anyone I have discussed this with!
2/02/2011 13:09 GMT+13:00 - Seller: The answer is still yes. Most auctions are common to all sites which are just localized versions, so it is perfectly normal that the same bidders and winners appear on all sites. The winner receives the version for his own country (for instance the plugs may be different, or the TV system), with a local warranty, etc. The video thus certainly does not prove the existence of any robots we would run, as those robots do not exist.
2/02/2011 12:42 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: My question was relating to the margin you are making not the bidding process. Again is making 1000 dollars on a 500 retail price item morrally correct? New question - please explain video on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdXHGGUAZcA about your robots bidding which I highlighted to you some days ago when i was trying to make bids and a robot stuck to a specific pattern which people don't do. Your explaination saying that they might be using software was credable however this video really shows you guys up wouldnt you agree?
2/02/2011 07:56 GMT+13:00 - Seller: We have already answered your question twice. Again, as users are fully informed before they make a decision, there is definitely nothing "morally" wrong. The fact that each bid costs 1 point and adds $0.02 to the price is explicitly and repeatedly stated on the site, including on the each auction details page, right next to the "Bid" button, and on the page where you bought the points, right above the "Buy" button. The latter goes even further, explicitly stating that each bid costs 1 point whether you win the auction or not (even though "each bid costs 1 point" is already very explicit). You can't thus in good faith tell us that anybody can "assume bids won't cost you" or that it is not explained, or that there is anything misleading.
2/02/2011 07:43 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: Am I talking to a robot? You still havent answered the question? Impressive margins our usually no more than 100 percent but in your case the margin is daylight robbery I again ask do you think this is morally correct. My main concern is that you claim an ipod for example sells for 96 dollars on the surface of it and its not till you go digging that you find the amount is made up of 2 cent bids at 1.18 each. You also wrongly assume your bids are bids and they won't cost you your credit. Why doesnt your front page explain this before you get into the bidding page? Thats what misleading. Also can you explain this video on you tube? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdXHGGUAZcA now explain that? Maybe your margin inst that good if you jack the bids up?
2/02/2011 02:15 GMT+13:00 - Seller: We already answered it: yes, as all the rules are explicitly and repeatedly stated on the site, and everything works exactly as described, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. There are many other businesses that make impressive margins on the goods they sell. As long as people receive what they were told they were buying, it is their choice to buy. What exactly would be "misleading"? All the rules are explicitly and repeatedly stated, everything works exactly as described. You were told the points were used to bid, that each bid costs 1 point, whether you win the auction or not, and adds 2 cents to the price and 20 seconds to the countdown timer. You had full access to the history of finished auctions, each with the final price (which lets you compute easily the total number of bids), and the number of points used by the winner. The site makes it clear that there is only one winner per auction. You chose to buy and use points, being fully aware that you could do so and not win. You received the points you bought, used most of them to bid, the service was provided exactly as described. There is thus absolutely nothing "misleading".
1/02/2011 20:51 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: Are you going to answer my question about taking 5K for an ipod worth 500? Yes your site mislead me and I was a fool for not digging deeper but I would suggest I am not the only one Can you answer the question please?
1/02/2011 13:01 GMT+13:00 - Seller: Again, as all the rules are explicitly and repeatedly stated on the site, all information is readily available, and everything works exactly as described, yes, it is perfectly correct. It is up to each user to decide whether they want to take a risk. You willingly made that informed decision, you are solely responsible for it.
1/02/2011 12:35 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: Why don't you answer the question is it morally correct to cllect 5K for a 500 dollar item? Which is what you nicely put in your tin for this auction? Your site is for gamblers of which we no who wins in that game...
1/02/2011 11:56 GMT+13:00 - Seller: If you are referring to this auction: http://www.bidfun.co.nz/bin/detail/*******/ipod-touch-4g-32-gb-with-hd-display-facetime-and-video-camera.html then the winner did indeed pay $97.38. He also used 140 points, as stated on the finished auction details page, and thus saved at least 43%, even taking into account the worst possible cost of the points used. There is thus absolutely nothing misleading. Gambling requires a random element, of which there is none here, strategy is essential. All the rules are explicitly and repeatedly stated on the site. The page where you bought the points explicitly states that each bid costs 1 point, whether you win the auction or not. It is thus up to each user to decide whether they want to buy and use points, being fully aware they could do so and not win. You willingly made that informed decision. Everything works exactly as described. There is thus absolutely nothing "unfair" or "immoral".
1/02/2011 08:21 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: EMMMM - nice answer... but look at that auction - 96 bid fun dollars at 2 cents each@ 1.18 - thats a total of $5664 for an ipod thats worth 500 someone is making some real cash here. The think that misleading is that it says it sold for 96 dollars when in fact you have collected something like 5000 + dollars off the fools you have gambling on you auctions.Do you believe what you are doing is fair and morally correct?
1/02/2011 00:30 GMT+13:00 - Seller: Some people try to have such weird bidding patterns to scare away other users by making them think something is wrong. They might also be using software on their own computer to do the bidding on their behalf using these patterns.
31/01/2011 18:58 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: ok - explain this. You have an auction running for an ipod and the bidding looks like this 31/01/2011 18:52:23 BidulMachin $66.24 Manual 31/01/2011 18:52:21 HIGHCLIF $66.22 Manual 31/01/2011 18:52:10 BidulMachin $66.20 Manual 31/01/2011 18:52:09 Davian $66.18 Manual 31/01/2011 18:51:58 BidulMachin $66.16 Manual 31/01/2011 18:51:57 erifon $66.14 Manual 31/01/2011 18:51:54 BidulMachin $66.12 Manual 31/01/2011 18:51:52 erifon $66.10 Manual 31/01/2011 18:51:10 BidulMachin $66.08 Manual 31/01/2011 18:51:08 colser $66.06 Manual Who is bidulmachin. Here we have a manual auction yest this bidder bids exactly 2.2 seconds after everyone else. Ok I can handle if the timer is at 0 seconds but even if you bid at 1 minute to go this guys still bids 2 seconds after you? Please explain. Bidding doesnt have exact patterns like this?
31/01/2011 08:15 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: Ok i'll check out the testimonials -----
31/01/2011 02:11 GMT+13:00 - Seller: What exactly would have been "misleading"? All the rules are explicitly and repeatedly stated on the site, and everything works exactly as described. You can find a few testimonials from winners here: http://www.bidfun.co.nz/bin/comments We are actually a company based in the UK, not in France, I'm not quite sure what could have given you that impression? There are many possible reasons for users to spend more that the value of the items: it could be part of a larger strategy to scare off other participants (they might loose on one auction, but then make it up by winning others), or it could simply be a bad strategy. As everything works exactly as described, and all the rules apply to everybody the same, there is nothing "unfair". Our site is in full compliance of the Acts you reference. Paypal and the competent authorities have already verified that items are actually sent to their respective winners, and that those winners are actually real, independent people, who buy and pay for their points like everybody else. Our Paypal account and site would have been closed a long, long time ago if that were not the case.
30/01/2011 23:14 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: Well I have credit with you and was misled with your clever marketing. I am not a sore loser asI havent even really done any seroius bidding.Ive spend 3 days watching what goes on and doing my own research... The findings are not good I am afraid. Hiding behind the privacy act doesnt cut it. Happy customers would be more than happy to share theirs stories yet I can't find any on the net yet you are a web based business from France hiding behind some other company registered in UK? Why is that? Why is it that the same bidders do auto bids on different auctions for amounts that exceed the value of the goods. Why is it that you end up getting 1000's of dollars for an item thats worth a 3rd of that. Hey I like to make money too but you guys are not trading fairly.In NZ we have the fair trading and the consumer gaurantees act so I would suggest you are not trading fairly and your gaurantees are not good to me unless you can actaully let your bidders place feedback on the successes or failures? Still not happy and will not accept your explanation unless Paypal can confrim to me directly they know some winners. Usually when a customers not happy I refund but obviously you are about taking money off people and don't give the people bidding a voice like Ebay or trademe etc?
30/01/2011 13:34 GMT+13:00 - Seller: Privacy protection laws quite obviously prohibit us from sharing such details with the general public. However Paypal and the competent authorities have access to this information, and have verified that there is absolutely no scam whatsoever. It is definitely not "everyone" saying there is a scam: the number of complaints is actually very, very small compared to the number of users. Some people who do not win seem to believe the only reason it would be the case would be if there was a scam. That would probably qualify them as sore losers.
30/01/2011 11:50 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: Please provide an address, phone number and reference of a winner in NZ Why is it that everyone on google and facebook say you are a scam?
30/01/2011 04:16 GMT+13:00 - Seller: All auctions have a winner, dozens every day, over 20 000 since the site started, so it is incorrect to state that "no one ever wins anything". Paypal has made extensive checks, including verifying that the items are actually sent to their respective winners. The competent authorities checked likewise. There is thus absolutely no "scam", and apparently no reason for a refund.
29/01/2011 22:08 GMT+13:00 - Buyer: Hi Bidfun as I have found out is a scam. I brought what i thought was credit to make bids however after research on the net this outfit is a scam and no one ever wins anything. Check google yourself if you like. I can't believe PAYPAL would be support such a scam? Can you please reverse my transaction as I do a lot of business with you. Thks,

Its just a way for these guys to get rich claiming they are saving us all money.

See dispute below