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Online Businesses Reviewed on Sitejabber for "trad" to "tram"

bleuett
1 review
1 helpful vote
9/15/10
I place an order of 145 euros from France. I wa enough stupid to transfer money from my bank and nothing happen..... incredible be careful
ala23
2 reviews
2 helpful votes
1/23/10
Have try more than 200 trading education and trading live rooms in the past 10 years.To be honest , these is one of the best and most ethical, professional online trading educators if not the best.Wihout any doubts they desrve special recognition.
alicial13
1 review
0 helpful votes
3/12/15
I think it is fake. The website doesn't even exist anymore. I just want a refund if the order hasn't been shipped out, but I can't tell because the site is down. I can't even get in contact with anyone . I've sent out 2 emails. I just want a way to get my money back if it's possible. "
lediad
1 review
0 helpful votes
10/15/19
Avoid this company. They are thieves. They are quick to accept deposits and refused to grant withdrawals. They asked for a commission and I paid but they still didn't grant my request. Then one day, all the money in my account was gone and the next day my account was closed. I called them and they refused to provide an explanation. They stopped responding to my mails and calls. I read online...
georgeg364
1 review
0 helpful votes
6/27/19
I got scammed by them, money is lost, the software Algotrader is just a lie. My experience here: https://life.institute/wealth/globalmarketsclub-com-trader-online-algotrader-are-a-scam/
rajaj1
1 review
5 helpful votes
10/15/14
I am using trader24 since 30 minths. Suddenly they closed down their operartions and not informed to their customers. Last week when i was login to system, sating that invalid credentials. I am having more than 5k in my account, i have no idea what to do now. Can soneone tell me to get my money back. I tried to call and sent n no of mails, but no o)e is responded. Are they bankrupted. seems so
alexanderd138
1 review
0 helpful votes
12/25/19
Guys at trader2b provide a full turnkey approach, including software and teaching for everyone to profit in the market. They pulled together their decades of experience into a course for everyone to benefit. Folks are extremely generous, to a fault, with their time both online and in person. I am very much satisfied with the effort that I'm putting in and of course with a positive outcome. I am...
kelvind23
11 reviews
0 helpful votes
3/29/20
robertocialone @mail,com introduced me to the traderfx platform it been an amazing expreience with this platform there service are smooth and I will recommend anyone trade on traderfx Kindly get in contact with Robert if you need any guide
marycec
1 review
0 helpful votes
12/16/19
Shopped in Scarsdale since you opened...in south Florida now and the nearest traders is almost an hour away. I strongly suggest you find a location in Hallandale or Aventura to accommodate the shoppers who go infrequently,if at all because of the distance or get 1 or 2 items when friends go .thanx
vincenzinau
2 reviews
1 helpful vote
9/20/16
Tradersking is just a big scam . They scammed me 32k . When you first open your account with them everyone is really nice and friendly once they take all your money they stop communicating with you , they don't answer the phone do not reply to your emails. Everything is fake about them even the address on the website. Kristin Taylor was my account manager she has scammed a friend of mine 20k as...
henryp26
1 review
0 helpful votes
8/28/15
Profiting $23,000 just within 3 weeks in my trading. Nothing can stop me from being wealthy. Hail Traders Superstore.
jasonk87
1 review
0 helpful votes
9/23/16
I was in the process of signing up with them a few years ago, as I typed my debit card details to make a deposit b4 pressing submit I very soon got a call from my bank telling me about an attempted financial tranctation made in Greece' can you confirm? We'll never been to Greece before. So it's not secure, funny thing is if they waited a few more minutes I would have completed my transaction...
tamarac19
26 reviews
21 helpful votes
1/25/20
Love the product selection, every name brand you can imagine for hair and beauty supplies in Canada. Great promotions at every given time, sample offers ect. Ships for free within Canada and never waited more than 3 days for products to arrive. The site has lots of tips and suggestions for which products may be best suited for you. Never had any issues with this website. Quick, easy, hassle...
tradesf
1 review
0 helpful votes
9/17/19
Join this community for resources, events, learning, guidance and get one step closer to your dream. We on daily basis analyze the market for the highest probability trading setup based on our years of experience and testing.
davidw41
1 review
1 helpful vote
4/25/11
Exciting Webinar format is effortless in explaining paradigm shift in active stock trading via technical analysis of stocks' trends and further use of options' tools in order to safely trade using probabilities. Scholarships available which includes whole Level 1 of eight Webinars.
dellm23
3 reviews
3 helpful votes
3/5/19
Thanks wwwDOTmalaikarecoveryDOTcom TradeSolid is a scam and they have made away with our funds I repeat a scam, scam scam scam. I trusted the system and thought it was legit not until they made away with $40,000 and been fighting on how to recover my money. I saw a review about a recovery expert which helped me to recover my money within a week and he's so good at what he does I figured that...
vincenth95
1 review
0 helpful votes
3/4/20
Not overwhelming and surely not surprising. Deposited some cash and wanted a withdrawal, but staff keeps being slow and makes you wait. Apparently, that is what they want.
someonea
1 review
1 helpful vote
7/2/13
I'm in the USA. I test ordered a few items from them and everything went fine. So I started using them as a drop shipper. According to my customers, only about 25% of the items actually arrived. I had to issue refunds for the remaining 75%. Tradestead ships without tracking numbers and when you inquire about an item (through email), their standard response is to ignore you completely....
georgew284
1 review
0 helpful votes
4/30/19
I have read the reviews on TSA & do not understand the ones who are critical... I was with Mitch King for a number of years and made considerable money using his recommendations. I was very satisfied and had a good relationship with Mitch and his company. I have been unable to find a replacement ... any recommendations would be appreciated. George W.
tracys460
1 review
0 helpful votes
3/20/20
I don't recognize this new-age Tradesy! A whole different online store experience then I originally started dealing with in 2010. Just like others; as soon as the company grows, their thirst changes. No more I ordered a product on February 28 and as of today March 20, I have not received. Instead of sympathizing with my situation and trying to resolve, the Rep went on about what a...
johnc511
1 review
0 helpful votes
4/20/16
Surpised anyone would feel ripped off thinking their getting an american guitar from china? The ones I bought were excellent quality and made in china like I would expect. Their site is down now with the database and maybe for good. Who knows... No problems buying from them
joyd144
1 review
2 helpful votes
7/25/19
I lost everything, with my life in shambles dealing with this binary option companies. My frustration came to an end, when I came across an agent who was able to have all my money recovered from the binary option trading companies. I am so grateful, you can reach me to share my recovery experience *******@gmail.com
mischaw
2 reviews
4 helpful votes
3/11/10
This site Deals with the E-mail address of *******@hotmail.com who is a THIEF who will steal your money! They take your money which you will never get it back unless you take tons of legal action!
ioannisc2
1 review
0 helpful votes
11/26/19
I invested 4000 euros.A week after I read some reviews for tradewell.exchange and I decided to withdraw my capital.They told me that they will manage to take back my money in a few days. Then Gary Bowe called me and told me that i have lost all of my capital due to the market changes and asked me to invest other 3000 for recovery....And of course i refused...
michaelc2869
1 review
0 helpful votes
3/18/20
Please everyone should be careful and stop being fooled by all these brokers and account managers, i was and processed ,at the end i lost all my money,.All efforts to reach out to their customer support desk was declined ,i found it very hard to move on . Luckily I came across a comment on a recovery website that recommended a funds recovery expert on binary/forex and bitcoin investment...
mandym124
1 review
0 helpful votes
3/5/20
Thanks for the Tradewheel B2B Platform, helping me search and develop more good customers, now we have started to work with him. Also thanks for my account manager's hard working. Now it's very useful to our trade business.
tradew1
Trade W. – Tradewheel.com Rep
Thank you so much, Mandy! It is our due pleasure to see that our services are beneficial to you. We look forward to having long-term business relations with you in the future. Cheers!
tradew1
Trade W. – Tradewheel.com Rep
Thank you so much, Mandy! It is always a pleasure to see happy customers who are satisfied with our services. Cheers!
elizabethm40
2 reviews
9 helpful votes
3/24/13
I sent them 2 boxes of games, never received any money. I can not get through to anyone to contact them. AVOID!!
alanf6
1 review
3 helpful votes
6/25/11
Be very careful when using this company. They aquire your goods with false statements regarding payment, then once they value it with what seems a fair valuation they make allsorts of excuses why they can't pay. ie payment system is down, manic work levels etc. Then when you try to contact them, they don't answer the phone ignore emails. Do not use them I am taking them to court
jamesc1997
4 reviews
2 helpful votes
2/25/20
I used them when i first started in the markets, i paid waaaaaay too much money as I realized what they teach is nothing more than what you can find in books. The real reason for that is they are nothing more than a chain of stores... think McDonalds for traders, thats what they are lol. No joke.
paulb1792
1 review
0 helpful votes
2/15/20
Hi There, I've been a client on and off for a while, I just find the content can be a little cluttered and grab. I think they need to change the wallpaper?

Trading Lounge attempted to help this customer through the Sitejabber Resolution Center, but the customer did not respond

stevenp9
1 review
1 helpful vote
3/19/11
Its a Scam Telephone is cut off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
anandd11
1 review
0 helpful votes
11/22/19
Useless platform. Facts: You cannot install your indicators. You can not program/code anything like EA, script or indicator. You cannot copy trades between accounts like you can do at MT4. You cannot do anything that you could do on MT4 with help of a custom windows programs. Moreover, when we (forex traders) already have MT4 on desktops, laptops, VPSes, phones and also on web; why the heck...
aa1882
1 review
0 helpful votes
5/12/17
I'd recommend this site. Zach issues trade alerts on options for swing trades. Trades basedon technicals analysis, which is very good quality I believe. Good investing track record, and a lot of free quality material on the site, relating to risk and minimising losses. Some losses, but nothing is hidden. Vids are short and sharp, and simple to understand. Would really recommend.
shawnw24
2 reviews
20 helpful votes
8/20/16
It took a long time to receive replies from the support (up to 9 days). They did not always reply to emails. It is unclear about how the website works with no information about what others will see (you have to figure it out yourself) and every change needs to be approved (even changing information such as a birth date). This is not an issue for fields that are completely open (you can type...
dinah38
1 review
0 helpful votes
1/19/17
Tradition essays online has helped me to complete my dissertation. It was not cheap, but definitely a worthy deal. I would not have completed it without their help. The truth is, my inspiration has run dry in the middle of the research and the writer had to pick up my ideas and extend them like on 50 pages. And he did great!
joepetm1
1 review
1 helpful vote
5/17/16
Great company!
sl153
1 review
3 helpful votes
1/29/19
Tradologie is a new company of Baap and Beta where baap has opened this company for mentally sick beta, who is very immature, arrogant in nature who thinks he knows every thing, every thing in all department how to do work.very unprofessional people they ask from employees to give 500% percent but not allowing anyone to use their skills.company dont provide any documents to employee but ask...
dianek3
4 reviews
17 helpful votes
6/17/11
I've need some translation help off and on and while it isn't enough to warrant hiring a translator or keeping one on-call, it helps that I can contact tradoweb.com and have an experienced translator at my disposal for any size project, any length of time, and they actually guarantee their work or they have someone redo it for free. Such a huge help to a small, but growing business.
vickim57
1 review
0 helpful votes
9/11/17
I recently purchased and received a pair of HARLEY DAVIDSON sandals that are now out of production with that company, however should be reputable shoes. I had an identical pair a few years back. I wore the shoes FOR ONE HOUR and the sides which were leather??? started peeling off. In one hour. I have never seen anything like it and according to HARLEY DAVIDSON they are probably fraudulent ,...
gregs423
2 reviews
0 helpful votes
10/23/19
I first bought my grill and on second use it would not stop feeding pellets into burn chamber. emptied entire hopper and set ablaze...scorched paint off grill. called company, they immediately sent new lid, tub and parts to replace damaged parts. Used it again and same thing. Called and they walked me through fire up and found my controller was bad, They immediately sent new controller. In...
samc235
8 reviews
8 helpful votes
12/27/18
Great service by staff and great views sitting in pub next to river BUT seriously drastic overpriced food and worse than MacDonald or bistro cafe. Trafalgar Burgher so small so dry no taste bun had no butter on it .. all seemed hastingly put together .. and at price of £14.40 just one example.. Buy drinks there expensive but nice visit for view and one drink but leave quick
mebm
1 review
0 helpful votes
11/1/19
Special thanks to WhiteHatBox.com's customer care officer AprilCaiCai for helping me so patiently to set it up. 5 stars for her!
waleedk2
1 review
1 helpful vote
7/10/19
Traffic Builder 3.0 is the cloud-based app for everyone who wants to earn money online. What can it do for us? We will discover in my next parts, but I want to tell you first that this software gives you the traffic you wish. Traffic here is completely free, so you do not make any payment. The visitors are highly targeted and converted to sales in any niche. But the big question ! Dose it work...
angelaw272
1 review
2 helpful votes
6/4/19
Trafficfornow is very knowledgeable and flexible to work with. my email marketing campaign is very efficient and produces really great results. I highly recommend them!. they even helped me design a beautiful new website in less than 8 hours!
aurorak5
1 review
0 helpful votes
4/11/19
I am around 3 years in the business, working for user acquisition with many partners. For a couple of months top of my profits I gain with Traffic IMA , these guys are great! Timely payouts, professional support via skype and personal manager 24/7. Guys also have tech team that help with integration and explain what to do if you are not kin in that. i was apprehensive and start with a few...

Tip for consumers: good affiliate program
many offers for CPA, CPI , games for desktop

ideclarew
3 reviews
3 helpful votes
2/13/16
Traffic monsoon works like this. You add $50 to buy ad packs then wait 55 days to get $55 dollars! Amazing but you have to click links from the website 10 times every 24 hours. This means a dollars a day. You can buy multiple ad packs at once or have lots of active ones at different times and different ways to buy. You can use your balance to buy ad packs which is a 0 % fee or use Payza or...
patriciad22
1 review
1 helpful vote
5/30/14
Traffic safety store has the largest inventory of traffic related items such as traffic cones, safety vests and baracades. Many of their products are made in the US and they have fast turna around time and shipping.
desireahr
1 review
0 helpful votes
2/17/20
We are a property owners association and we have gaye arms at the front of our community. We previously purchased covers from another company that were considered "custom". Not only were they expensive but they took a very long time to arrive. When it was time to replace them we found the traffic safety warehouse and was very pleased with the price. We decided to order and shipping was fast...
jhonm32
2 reviews
0 helpful votes
6/25/17
I have been using TrafficTarget.org as a SEO, Pagerank, and general marketing boost for my Websites and online businesses. I have also used them to promote a Blog that i have making me rank higher for various keywords. Very useful service and very cheap to get 120k visits/month for $99. Highly Recommended

Tip for consumers: If you decide to go with them, contact them to get the best options, most of your requestws can be customized - I got a great deal for 1 Million visits / month.

gregoryg13
2 reviews
1 helpful vote
8/12/13
Buyer beware! The gentleman on the phone was courteous, but their website is very misleading. My particular ticket is advertised, on their website, as starting at $199. When I called, it suddenly rose to over $600! The ticket I am contesting is only around $380, so it ends up cheaper for me to simply pay it. He claimed that I live in an area that, for some reason unbeknownst to him, they have...
kevins78
6 reviews
9 helpful votes
10/30/14
This is a ok software its free , when you go on traffic travis website it lets you download a free version which is good . Then they email you a code to activate this software . It as more features if you upgrade but if you only got the one site or upto 5 then this is best not to upgrade . Traffic travis is a software which lets you track your website and lets you know how its doing and how...
johns1526
3 reviews
3 helpful votes
2/28/17
These guys are not cheap but then again, compared to some quotes, they are not extortionate either. They have a refreshing approach to SEO and place your site and what you want to get out of the experience at the heart of things....that's a change for the better. They have a system that they give you a log in for that lets you see what they are doing and they do a lot. Now don't get me...
gracyj
2 reviews
0 helpful votes
4/3/15
It services are good. I really like it.
fatimat7
1 review
0 helpful votes
9/11/19
I started using TraffMagic in 2017. It was great then, and it was okay up until 2018. Something must've changed because I no longer receive the traffic I pay for and they always claim they sent it. I have Google Analytics that shows everything. I've sent screenshots to them and they continue to state that the traffic had been sent. I'm just waiting on my refund from my last failed campaign...
abelj6
2 reviews
0 helpful votes
8/5/16
High quality Trailer Part at low prices and quick delivery. Would definitely recommend.
mrd149
Mr D.
1 review
0 helpful votes
3/25/20
Mostly a good experience. The only issue I had was it was difficult to read the wiring diagram picture in the description of the wiring kit I bought because it was blurry. Picture should be clearer.
danil19
1 review
1 helpful vote
7/8/13
I came across their website when I was looking for easy ways to maneuver my trailer, and searching around google I came across one of their youtube videos. I was interested so I purchased a unit. Their free shipping that came with the unit was a plus, especially because it was very fast. I also got in touch with one of their customer service people because they were following up with me. They...
williamh1537
1 review
0 helpful votes
2/24/20
Horrible company and will steal your money, There is a reason everything they do is recorded and they convince you to signs documents you don't have time to read the fine print. THEY ARE A TOTAL SCAM>.....

Tip for consumers: They are a total scam. And very slick talking on the phone. They can't back up their numbers. And they make it very hard to cancel.
I am going to fight them as hard as I can. I wish I would have researched them prior to signing up. Please... Read the reviews of a company before working with them.

paisleym
1 review
2 helpful votes
7/16/15
Went online to book a hotel, since Trails.com had an 'internet sale' and it was the best price I found. Had to sign up for the 14 day trail, which I did. When I put in the hotel info, instead of the price I was quoted before membership, I got one $5 more and instead of queen bed it was a double bed! I went back in history and booked it at the lower price. When I got the confirmation from the...
marko141
4 reviews
4 helpful votes
6/21/17
The site is great, it provides you the ability to download GPX files for your GPS unit for FREE. No cost, they are ad based. Unlike Rever who wants $50 a year to download your own tracks...hahaha Plus with TrailTaker you can see videos of trails and not to mention upload your own tracks and attach your own YouTube videos. Awesome concept and hope they continue to grow
mars18
5 reviews
0 helpful votes
12/10/19
I have been trying to find Do It Yourself tools for my projects. Finally I found in this site. It is a very pleasant experience with professional and helpful support. Very good buyer experience, recommend it to everybody.
bjc13
BJ C.
1 review
2 helpful votes
10/2/18
This company is based in China - Not the UK I ordered an item at £49.95 - they charged £61 to my credit card. They then sent a totally different item worth about 1/3rd of the value - which took 16 days to arrive. Not worth the hassle of trying to send back - Someone anonymous answered (in very broken English) any emails I sent. My own fault for using and a lesson learned. This review posted...
tome96
1 review
0 helpful votes
8/2/17
This site offered a pair of sought after Nike Metcon 3's at just £56.99, where they should be going for £100 with this particular pair. Therefore too good to be true methinks. Ran the site into a checker and it was registered in the Russian Federation (low trust rating). Likely to be a scam.
lynnc79
1 review
0 helpful votes
9/27/16
I tried to order some Converse online at a different website. I even searched before to see if the website was legit but I wasn't finding any feedback. When I submitted my order it said there was an error then I got an automatic text from my credit card company saying there was fraudulent charges just purchased on my account. I got it off immediately and closed my account. This website is...
tonyh102
1 review
0 helpful votes
8/11/17
The course is organized in a manner that makes it very difficult to complete. The course starts at 11 o'clock on specific days of the week. You are required to submit instructor graded assignments, the problem with this is that if you submit an assignment after 4 o'clock in the afternoon it is not graded until the following day. And if is on Friday is not graded until Monday. This makes it very...
ranau
4 reviews
1 helpful vote
4/7/15
Thanks admin for sharing very precise knowledge and free templates with us. Thumbs up.
sandrah107
1 review
0 helpful votes
1/5/17
I thought I had a great resume, accounting for all my past experiences, it was 6 or so pages long and boring. As I worked on developing my profile on Linkedin, and applying for jobs on the different career web sites, I decided my resume did not meet the 6 sec wow factor. Even tried redoing it my self, but just did not have the right skill set. I hired TopResume and within 48 hours had the...
jeffh141
1 review
0 helpful votes
9/22/17
I have learned so much during the webinar - Excel - Creating a KPI Dashboard for HR Professionals". It was very easy to understand and very informative. The speaker Mike Thomas had depth knowledge of subject and he was able to answer all questions submitted. Mike Thomas is a subject matter expert in a range of technologies including Microsoft Office and Apple Mac. I would like to attend more...
braydenr
3 reviews
5 helpful votes
7/27/17
The Training Mask product is absolutely amazing with its fast swap difficulty settings. The mask comes with three valves adjustable to your difficulty. The mask can be worn while running or weightlifting and is meant to challenge your lungs. You have the option to completely dec out your mask and personalize it to you with their sleeves and valves options. I highly recommend this product to...
claired61
2 reviews
1 helpful vote
8/10/18
L'utilisation du site est simple et efficace. Mais de que vous avec un problème plus complexe (p.exp un Prems' à échanger à cause des intempéries) ça deviens impossible et si vous voulez contacter le SAV on vous annonce la couleur toujours avec ce ton sympathique qui est finalement rien que du sarcasme : "Notre aide en ligne est disponible 24/7 et répondra à vos questions plus vite que des...
benn579
1 review
4 helpful votes
7/27/13
We had a thomas the train party for my son's birthday and this website had everything we needed for the party. They sell cake designs for thomas the train, party favors, balloons and toys. They also have chuggington train toys as well. Just make sure you order way in advance for your party.
reenies3
1 review
1 helpful vote
3/13/20
I have been charged TWICE for receiving absolutely NOTHING! I cancelled my order within minutes, yet was still charged. I have sent in three disputes as per their web page, none of which have been responded to by this company. Their web site doesn't work at all except to charge your credit card and it freezes so that you press the back button and that is how they keep recharging your credit...
nancyr56
Nancy R. – TrainPetDog Rep
Hi Reenie,
We apologize for the inconvenience caused. I am not sure how you contacted us and why your disputes weren't answered.
But we respond to every email sent to info@trainpetdog.com and / or if someone logs a ticket on our contact us page.
Also there is a phone# to leave a voicemail +1-310-400-6364.
Now that we have got your message, our customer support team will get in touch with you in 2 business days and refund your payments.
Sorry once again.
michaelw2
1 review
1 helpful vote
9/27/09
Trainsignal.com is a bunch of liars. They lie to you telling you how great their customer service is but then you can't get them back on the phone after the sale. I tried to get my money back (they advertise a money back guarantee) but not I'm fighting it with my credit card company. The guys at train signal should be put out of business.
heatherc11
1 review
1 helpful vote
1/30/13
I ordered a train set a few days before Christmas & customer service made sure I had my train set for my kids in time for Christmas. It was there in time & the kids loved the train set.
arometiquer
1 review
1 helpful vote
1/4/17
This Chinese company advertise as a Dropship company on their website and other Dropship sites, but they have a policy that they will not allow you to use the images and product information on the site unless you first buy the product you need. Imagine that you need 1000 images, that means you first have to buy all the products before you can put the product on your website, that is called...
anitam6
2 reviews
3 helpful votes
8/11/11
Received email regarding work at home, blah blah blah... Searched the address and came up with the following. It is spam, as far as I am concerned. Below is their link page as it reads on trakim.biz............ Total Urls: 5730 Hits Today: 4638 Email Campaigns: 383 Open Rate Today: 4 From Gregg Wallmuller CEO, DGNS Solutions LLC Thursday, August 11,...
saram429
2 reviews
0 helpful votes
5/29/19
so goddaned dumb. i never leave reviews fo anything, but will happily take more of my valuable time on this earth (reincarnation is bull$#*!, 1 life vide game style) to slam these $#*!in goons. honest to god, your app/website/api/$#*! you is terrible. i hope it fails miserably, as you have humans. im sure its some fuced cashgrab to build some gross DB of "Viewer's Sensibilities, in the 18-24...
kathyp
1 review
1 helpful vote
8/25/09
I have been trying to return a trampoline for over a month . I have followed retur policies and made many phone call and sent e-mails . Have been given the run around by every one I have spoken to. I still have not been able to return it. I have never hadf such problems with a web sight. I recomend that you never use them. I am now in the process of taking legal action.
judyh710
0 reviews
0 helpful votes
3/12/20
Horrible customer service and they ship incorrect sized products then expect the customer to pay for shipping it back to the tune of $55.00. They never return calls are ALWAYS away from their desks for numerous reasons. So frustrating to the degree I'm just going to keep the incorrect item and save myself further costs to get "refunded" which sounds like they don't do that either - per other...
clairej15
3 reviews
2 helpful votes
3/27/17
I had to buy a new replacement mat for my trampoline, so I found their website, I still wasn't sure which one will fit my trampoline; So I phoned them up, customer service agent was very helpful over the phone, and I actually got what I needed. Recomended